Generational Friction at Work: Millennials vs Boomers vs Gen Z

Lars Nielsen (00:01.206) Hey again Paulina, what's going on? Paulina (00:03.036) Hi Lars! Paulina (00:07.122) What's going on? That is such a good question. There's so much going on. It's always hard to really drill it down. I mean, this week was just, was a blur in a way because we had so many, we did a lot of workshops with clients this week and it's always so interesting to see the company culture evolve in such a meeting. So, With this one client, were really defining their new company values. We were looking at, a what well values do they want to put up for themselves? And, because we don't want just values to be posters on the wall, right? We want them to be lived and embodied in everyday life. We were really breaking it down. What does this value mean for your company specifically? Why is it important for your company? And how would it show up in daily behaviors? And it, this is one of my most favorite things that we do. because it's so individual and so much fun to see people struggling at the beginning and like questioning if that's actually going to be worth their time. And then over, over time, so we do this in multiple workshops and then over time they see. things coming together and really get inspired. And you can see how the energy in the group really shifts because they feel inspired for the first time potentially by their company's values. It's really fun. Lars Nielsen (01:50.702) I get the sense of the week being a blur. On my end, it's just because it's been a crazy week, back to back meetings. And at some point you just go into this autopilot, right? And then once things start slowing down, you kind of like have to like reflect on things. like, my God, so many things has happened this week. Paulina (02:05.094) Mm-hmm. Paulina (02:16.508) Yeah. Lars Nielsen (02:16.95) So I'm pulling the plug this weekend. You know, I'm turning off all my devices, which is a big thing for me. And then I'm just going to enjoy some time with the girlfriend. Paulina (02:22.738) Good for you. Paulina (02:30.63) That's amazing. That's going be so much fun. Enjoy that. Lars Nielsen (02:32.064) Yes, best way to spend the weekend. Okay, Paulina, let's do this. Hello everybody and welcome to... The podcast that dives into the messy, complicated and sometimes hilarious world of workplace dynamics. I'm your host Lars. And today we are tackling a topic that's a stir in offices everywhere. Generational... friction at work. We are talking about the classes between boomers, millennials and Gen Z. We're going beyond the memes and stereotypes to understand the real misunderstandings and how to turn them into opportunities for growth. And as always, joining me today is my amazing co-host Paulina, co-founder of the Culture Code Foundation and a true expert. in all things company culture. Welcome Paulina. Paulina (03:38.588) Thank you Lars, as always, super excited to be discussing things with you. And obviously let's not forget Generation X, because that's your generation and you're still part of the workforce. Lars Nielsen (03:52.334) Yes, I am. it's honestly, this is actually very funny because until like maybe half a year ago, I always said to people, oh, I'm such a boomer, right? I know that considering my age and full transparency, I'm 51, considering my age, I might be like more on the beat when it comes to like automation, tech, AI and so on, because this is what I do for a living. But in so many other aspects, I'm still an old soul. So I've already said to people, I'm such a boomer. And then I looked it up, what is a boomer? And I find out I'm Generation X. And that's so much cooler. Nobody wants to be a boomer, but being Gen X. So cool. I love it. So I'm Gen X. Yes. Paulina (04:32.498) Yep. Paulina (04:46.258) So yeah, we obviously bring two different generations to the table here already because I'm a millennial. Lars Nielsen (04:46.87) Okay. Lars Nielsen (04:51.438) yes, yes you're millennial. That's also a very cool name. Yeah. We should have brought a Gen Z. Paulina (04:55.941) Yeah. Paulina (05:01.99) Yes, that's true. That's true. Lars Nielsen (05:03.87) shit. I got sweat on my podcast. OK, so today's episode is all about how we can move from generational conflict to joint genuine collaboration. We'll be exploring frameworks, curiosity rituals and even reverse mentoring. And Paulina, let's start with a big picture question. Take us back to the beginning. Paulina (05:07.122) you Lars Nielsen (05:30.664) what sparked your interest in generational differences at work. Paulina (05:36.125) Well, I guess I would say it was the recruiting patterns I see in teams across industries. I I've worked in both more established companies in Germany and I've also worked for hyper growth startups. So I've seen it across the board where older generations were labeling younger ones as too soft, too impatient or not loyal enough. At the same time, the younger generations looked up into leadership styles that they experienced as rigid, dismissive, and disconnected from day's work reality. So, just by, by those labels or different viewpoints, it became very, very clear that if these generations actually work together, that can become difficult, obviously. And I have led very, very diverse teams. in terms of also generations. So I've had teams where I would combine four different generations within one team. So that was really, really highly interesting to see, to see that unfold. Right. And what fascinates me is that this labeling of the different generations isn't new. think it. I think it's throughout history, it's been the same way, right? Every generation thinks the one after them is weaker or less resilient or less hardworking. And the younger ones are thinking that the older ones are outdated and just don't get them anymore. Right. And the reality is they are just forged by different environments and different pressure, pressure points that they experience, right? So boomers, for example, they grew up in the scarcity mindset after the second world war. Gen X then became fiercely independent, which you are a wonderful case in point, right? And at the same time, as millennials who were also raised by boomers, right? We were taught to achieve and overachieve and optimize everything that we're doing. Paulina (08:01.498) Because when we entered the work life, it was really difficult to get a job because there was still not... Paulina (08:12.562) Yeah, there was still a lot of, a lot of people in the work, in the workforce. um, uh, we, when we entered the workforce, there was the economic crisis from 28. There was the Arab spring happening. there was war on the, on the rise. So a lot of companies didn't necessarily hire people and we were still very, very focused on, um, box thinking. you had to, especially in Germany, you had to have a certain education in order to get that job. If you didn't have that specific education, you would just not get the job. And there has been so much more flexibility around that in the last, I would say 10 years, which made it a lot easier for skipping lanes or changing lanes throughout your career. And, Gen Z on the other hand, they came of age in complete chaos. And at the same time with a lot more access and voice than any generation before them thanks to social media. So each brings their own challenges but also their own adaptive genius to the table. Lars Nielsen (09:29.034) And I would be very honest here on the show. Like you're saying, I'm Gen X and I was brought up by hardworking parents. And I always learned from the beginning. I had my first job since I was like 10 years old. Like you have to work hard and you have to perform if you want to do anything with your life and so on. And I'm kind of in a conflict here because on one side... When it gets to Gen Z, I'm like, come on, put that phone down. Stop looking at your phone. Look me in the eyes, you know, talk to me like I'm a human. And I get so annoyed sometimes. And again, I want to be honest and I'm going to say this in quotation marks. I see them sometimes as lazy, again, in quotation marks. But on the other hand, Paulina (10:17.042) Mm-hmm. Lars Nielsen (10:22.624) I also admire them for their independence and their willingness to go their own way and prioritize freedom and time with other people and life more than just work because life is so much more than work. And I'm caught up in that grind, right? Paulina (10:40.722) Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think this is something that Gen X and the millennials have in common quite a bit because we were both raised by Boomer parents, right? And so this hard work, I also had my first, I started working when I was 14. So I'm, know the hustle very, very early on and it was like, it became part of my identity to be an overachiever. Lars Nielsen (10:50.432) Mm-hmm. Paulina (11:11.114) And, I think that the, that the spellings that a lot of Gen Z's bring, bring to the work life and just more relaxed, more mental health focused approach to it also is really, really helpful. I get the notion because we are so much in the grind of, I mean, even for myself, I'm, not only having a four day work week, right? And. That feels so wrong a lot of the time. And for the first couple of months, I really had to think about, what am I, what am I going to do with this long weekend now? And I think this is also very, very sad in a way. the younger generations definitely have a huge advantage when it comes to that, because they don't care about work. that much anymore. What they do care about from my experience is purpose is working smart and they just go gangbusters if they have to sit at a desk for eight hours, even though they don't have work for eight hours. So, and that I feel very, very much. had those, I had the same exact feeling throughout my career. If I was, if I had the feeling I was wasting my time and I was just there to show face, Yeah, that made me go nuts. I wanted to be productive. wanted to... then... Yeah. So there are upsides to everything, I guess. Lars Nielsen (12:52.544) Yeah. So what are the three most damaging misunderstandings you've seen between generations? Paulina (12:59.666) What I hear a lot is, is this notion that they don't care as much as I do. Right. This one goes both ways. Both ways. So all the older generations might think that Gen Z for example, don't have a work ethic, just like you just said. Right. Well, Gen Z will think that senior leadership is coasting on outdated status and that they don't. care about learning new things, that new ways and, or even trying to understand them. Right. And from my perspective, everyone cares in a different way. And if you don't take the time to try to get to know each other or understand each other better than this aspect that could actually combine you divides you. Another thing that I hear, see a lot is that They apparently don't want feedback. So older generations often avoid giving Gen Z feedback because they're afraid that it'll be taken personally. Meanwhile, younger workers are craving direction and meaning. So we have a feedback void based just out of assumptions or missing communication skills. Right? So if you, as an older generation are incapable of communicating your feedback in a way that resonates with a younger generation, that is a missed opportunity for both sides. And then the third thing would be the notion of they are either too fast or they are too slow. So younger folks are seen as jumping into change too quickly or just not being focused enough on certain things. While older folks are seen as dragging their feet. And usually it is actually clash between experimentation and stability, which are both needed. Paulina (15:08.892) for any company to thrive, right? So these misunderstandings aren't just annoying. They are actually eroding trust. And when we're talking about workplace, they are also eroding effectiveness. So because they make people second guess each other's intent and that kills collaboration and you cannot push towards the same goal together as well. Lars Nielsen (15:36.577) When you're saying that we got a feedback void because of assumptions, it reminds me of one of my absolute favorite quotes or like sentences that I like is that assumptions is the mother of all F-ups. I love that one. Paulina, can you debunk a myth about one generation? Paulina (15:41.767) Mm-hmm. Paulina (16:08.06) Yeah, let's do the, let's do the, the one that older generations are better tech. mean, I would say you are the one of the best examples I know. I mean, you're on TikTok, you are on, Instagram, you, your entire business. Yeah. And not, you're not just on there. You're actually producing content and your entire work evolves around AI and automation. Lars Nielsen (16:23.763) on YouTube, on all the channels. Paulina (16:36.65) And using those new tools and this new tech to, yeah, make, make your business thrive. Right. And you're experimenting a lot with different apps and then you, discard the ones that you don't find useful. And so, and I mean, we've worked together, right. And I've seen you crush complex tools faster than 20 something counterparts. So. Lars Nielsen (16:46.094) Mm-hmm. Paulina (17:04.802) It's not, again, it's, it's a myth. The issue isn't skill. It's, it's alignment on what do you need for your work? What, how much curiosity do you bring naturally? Because that curiosity is the one drive for all of that across, across any, any generation or any, any age, right? And I also seen you, very clearly discard tech that didn't bring you any, any benefit or that didn't solve any real problem for you. And I did find that hard sometimes because when I said, okay, we're working with those tools and you were like, no, I'm not. Right. So, and, then, but when I remember correctly, we always found a, found an amazing workaround and if you have like a clear stance on this is not not helping me, then this is not incompetence. It's discernment. Lars Nielsen (18:09.942) Yeah, true. And thank you for highlighting that I might be of age, but I'm still young at heart and experimenting a lot. I get that a lot from people, even though I very often try to like, what's the English word here? Like I try to like talk it down. You know, downplay it. Yes, exactly. Thank you very much. Paulina (18:19.058) you Paulina (18:34.195) Don't play it. You don't play it. Lars Nielsen (18:38.606) I say to a lot of people, yeah, I know that my YouTube videos are just crap. I'm just saying a lot of BS and pretending that I know stuff. But then people say like, hey, you know stuff, like, because then we start talking and so on. And they're like, okay, stop, stop, stop. I'm way behind or something like that. So yeah. Have you seen a generational conflict turn into a learning moment? Paulina (19:14.122) yes, yes. That was in one of my leadership roles where I was actually having a very diverse team and we had intergenerational content. And we did do what we're going to discuss a bit later today. We were doing reverse mentoring and reverse shadowing. So I would have my different team members go on, again, that was a sales team. That was back in the day when you would still visit the customers in real life without a screen between you, but actually driving there in a car and shaking their hands. It was a wild time. So I would have different team members do that together, travel together, visit the clients together, spend an evening at a restaurant, have dinner together and then come back. so that they could really get to know each other and really see how the other person would work. And in that specific instance, I had a 26 or 27 year old woman and 50 something dude take one of those trips together. And they actually went to one of her clients first and He completely took over the meeting. He would hand out his business cards to her client. He would, yeah, just showcase his abilities and she felt treated like a secretary and completely, and she, she was so angry. was so. At him because she felt like he was negating any of her skill that he was completely, that he completely, made her look like a complete imbecile in front of the customer. So, it was, it was a disaster. It was an actual disaster, but she also said, I can't, I can't explode in front of the customer. can't just tell him F off in front of the client. Right. Paulina (21:36.682) And, but she did call me after, after the meeting and she was fuming. She was absolutely fuming. She was like, I'm never talking to him again. I'm never gonna, gonna work with him again. That was, yeah. Lars Nielsen (21:54.107) It's a classic example of like you're saying that the older generation thinks that the younger generation don't know anything, right? And then they're jumping in to take over that meeting. Paulina (21:54.61) was shit show. Paulina (22:03.631) Exactly, exactly. Exactly. That's how she, that's how she felt like, right? That he wasn't taking her seriously, that he wasn't respecting her, that he didn't really care about how she did things, but just wants to showcase that he could do things better. And so I had her on the phone fuming for about half an hour and I hung up and I was like, okay, how am I going to approach this? And in that second, he actually called me and he told me. Paulina, I effed up big time. And then he told me the story from his perspective without sugarcoating anything, with completely owning what he had done. And then he felt really, really bad about it because he realized on him, on him by himself that, yeah, he just made a huge, huge, huge mistake. And he actually asked me for advice on how to fix it with the colleague. Lars Nielsen (22:42.062) No. Paulina (23:07.37) And so that, that conflict between those two turned not only into learning moment for myself, because I realized, okay, they can, they can also solve that conflict between themselves. They don't necessarily necessarily need me to intervene. They need me maybe to vent or to, spar on solutions, but they can fix it on their own. But it was also a huge learning moment for him because he, he, He immediately realized, I need to behave differently if I want to be, if I want to keep working with younger people. And, it took a while, obviously for them to get it, get it back together. but he apologized profusely to her and, he also apologized to the customer, which I've, I've rated really highly for him, that he, so he took full, full accountability. And if that is really rare, really rare, and I was really impressed. and so, yeah, I think that was probably. Lars Nielsen (24:06.478) which is really rare, right? Paulina (24:20.944) the one story with the biggest conflict between generations, but at the same time with the biggest learning moment. Lars Nielsen (24:27.438) What a great story. Let me share something really quick. It's kind of sat down the same alley, but it might not be like a thing about generations, even though it involves two different generations, because I had like in a job, I had a very young colleague. So this is the other way around. Paulina (24:39.538) Yeah. Lars Nielsen (24:46.99) quotation marks, I'm the older one here. And Paulina, you know me in real life and for people that don't watch this, like I'm probably the typical Viking type, you know, I am about what, 6'1". I think if we translate that into American measurements, I'm 191 centimeters, I'm about 105 kilos, I'm a big dude. I'm okay, well trained. I'm bald, I have a beard and so on. So a lot of people actually, and I've seen this one multiple times. So I know this is true. This is not just something in my imagination. People sometimes perceive me as not that intelligent because I'm this big dude, right? And there was this young guy in this company here that, you know, we worked for about a month or so. And again, like you say, Paulina, like I know my tech. I am very good at being a deep dive into tech. I might not know how to code, but I really grasp things really easy when it comes to tech. And then one or two months into this work, he actually pulls me aside and again, big kudos for over just approaching me and said like, I got to be honest. I thought you were just this stupid workout dude because you only talk about CrossFit and so on, but you know your shit. You really know your shit. Paulina (25:54.322) Mm-hmm. Lars Nielsen (26:12.59) So this is actually the other way around, right? That somebody perceived me not only because of my age, but also on how I look, that I didn't know anything. Paulina (26:21.074) Yeah. And, I love it when people realize that they have a known bias and they actually confronted. mean, he could have just done this internally, right? He could have just said to himself, but to actually approach you and show that vulnerability that he misjudged you and that he realized that he misjudged you. I love that. That's amazing. Amazing. And yes, by the way, he is the absolute Viking type. There is a picture of him and me. Lars Nielsen (26:30.723) Yes. Lars Nielsen (26:42.743) Yeah, me too. Paulina (26:48.858) from a couple of years ago where he looks like my bodyguard because towers look like. Anyway, let's continue. Lars Nielsen (26:54.421) You Lars Nielsen (26:58.156) Yes, anyway, let's continue. What are the three worst things a company could do if they wanted to fail at multi-generational integration? Paulina (27:08.6) Mm-hmm. as always, I love this section. so, I would definitely advise you and, yes, please. This is the sarcastic part of this podcast. always want to make this super clear, but yeah, I would definitely advise you to ignore age dynamics altogether. Like pretend we're all the same, give everyone the same benefits and expect people to just Lars Nielsen (27:11.853) Yes. Paulina (27:37.991) get over it. They would definitely be my number one. And then just in light of what you just said with the stereotypes of bias, let the stereotypes just run the show. You can make passive aggressive jokes about kids these days or boomers and their emails or something like that. That'll, that'll help for sure. And last but not least, block conversations between the generations. Right? If you are too scared to talk about differences openly, then you can create silence where trust should live. So make sure to have zero curiosity or cross-generational mentoring going on. That'll do it. Lars Nielsen (28:24.714) Thank you very much. That last part is particularly interesting. What would curiosity or cross-generational mentoring actually looks like? Paulina (28:36.914) Yeah. and as I, as I mentioned it in my, in my story a little bit earlier, so, but the concept per se is have cross-generational duo's shadowing each other for a while. So that can be either a day, it can be done during onboarding. can be a recurring thing. can be cross-departmental. It can be within the same department. And, just have like a younger person follow an older person for a day and then turn it around. the older person follow the younger person. And, at the end of the day, can give them curiosity prompts, like quick questions that they can ask each other just to, to exchange knowledge. Right. and this, so if you, if, if the people that are doing the shadowing. are in the same department. Obviously you can also directly talk about how they are running the same job differently. So you can discuss the nuances of how you're doing this and why am I doing it like this? But things that you can always ask, even if it's cross-departmental, is what's one thing you used to believe about my work? that you've changed your mind on after watching me for a day. What's something that you admire about how I work or what feels hard for you in our current collaboration or in our current culture. Right. So those kinds of prompts will instigate incredibly deep exchange and conversations that go beyond the job per se. But it will, but it can also give a lot of insight in terms of, is there something that I can learn from a more experienced person? I, and with more experienced, I don't mean the older generation. I'm saying maybe the younger person has more experience in using certain tools or they have more experience in running a team. I mean, I've managed people that were twice my age and who hadn't had never managed. Paulina (30:57.914) anyone in their life. and then they say there is always some give and get between different generations, right? So it's not about handing over a token, right? It's about honoring different forms of expertise. And of course you can use curiosity prompts like this at any given time. You don't need to wait for a full shadowing or mentoring moment, can also include those in team meetings or discussions. Lars Nielsen (31:30.892) And if you're sitting out there as a listener and you're, let's say you're in a managing position, what's one practical thing a manager could do today to improve generational collaboration? Paulina (31:43.667) I think I would advise to infuse a discussion among your team members with the question, is there a decision we're making today that could benefit from a different lens? And that could be a generational lens, could obviously also be a department, departmental lens or whatnot. But in terms of what we're talking about today, How could this decision benefit from a different generational lens? And literally ask, does someone younger or older have a perspective we're missing or ideally, if you have those generational divides in your team, just directly talk to the person that are younger or older. right. would ask Lars, what is your perspective on this specifically? And if you want to go a step further, you can pair people across generations for, for a short term project or a specific task and thereby making generational diversity part of your teaming strategy, not just, yeah, a demographic slide that looks nice on your website. Lars Nielsen (33:00.75) And after saying like, hey, Lars, what is your thoughts on this? immediately you're gonna regret that you allowed me time to talk. know how much I can talk if I'm passionate about things. Paulina (33:11.666) But that is actually a really good point, right? Because it's obviously super crucial that you don't just ask the questions, but that you actually incorporate the feedback and the input, right? If you just ask for the sake of asking and not do anything with that, then this is actually going to harm. your collaboration with across generations. So you need to, I mean, obviously don't incorporate BS, but try to incorporate the good things as often as possible. Lars Nielsen (33:49.743) Very good part. So Paulina, here we are, getting close to the end now. So is there a question I didn't ask that you wish you had me asking today? Paulina (34:01.772) Yeah, we didn't talk about power dynamics at all. because a lot of generational friction isn't actually about age. It's more about who feel about who feels seen and who gets to call the shots and who's allowed to say no. Right. So we all know that a lot of boards and sea level positions are still held by older people. boomers specifically. And I mean, we just need to look around the presidential landscape, the international presidential landscape. There are a lot of very, very old people running the show. So that is clearly there is a there is a power imbalance between the generations. And it can become very, very difficult for a 23 year old to challenge the strategy in a room full of execs, no matter even if she or he is in a higher up position. Right? So there will always be the question in the room, or not always, but very often the question will be in the room, is that a brave contribution or a breach of hierarchy, or is anybody actually going to listen to a 23 year old if they don't have like high, high position in the company. Right. So unless we're also willing to look at power balances or power structures, we'll keep blaming personality or age and miss a real opportunity for change in terms of how do you bring in a more diverse structure for decision-making and for, yeah. So I personally, for example, would be a huge fan of making sure that younger people's voices counted more in elections than older people's voices, because we have in all over Europe, we have the demographic issue, right? With the older generations being much higher, much more populated than the younger generations. And therefore a lot of politics is being made for old people because they are the biggest. Paulina (36:25.484) vote a group of voters. And if younger people's votes would count twice, then this, this power balance would shift. And I personally believe very, very strongly and very passionate about that, that it's important to make politics for future and not for maintaining status quo or for past. generations who don't necessarily, and now I'm going to be crass, that are not necessarily going to be, have a future. mean, an 82 year old president making politics, making decisions for a future that he's not going to be part of. It's difficult to say the least. Lars Nielsen (37:12.706) I think we can do a whole episode on that topic. But maybe not for this podcast, maybe we should do another podcast about that. Paulina (37:20.242) Yeah, we said that a couple of times already. It's just about, sorry, just want to say it's just to showcase the power dynamics. This was just a good example. But it is also very, very true in companies, I think. Lars Nielsen (37:25.652) Yes we have Paulina as always that was super interesting. Lars Nielsen (37:43.277) Yeah, thank you very much. So to sum up, we've learned what generational friction is often rooted in misunderstandings and stereotypes, that bridging these gaps requires intentional effort. The key is to move past assumptions and create environmental... Okay, I'm gonna really cut that off. Okay, let me just put in a marker. Paulina (37:59.879) Yeah, for sure. Lars Nielsen (38:14.358) Here we go. Paulina, that was super interesting again. So to sum it up, we have learned that generational friction is often rooted in misunderstandings and stereotypes, and that bridging these gaps requires intentional effort. The key is to move past assumptions and create environments where different experiences and values can be celebrated. Paulina (38:33.522) Mm. Lars Nielsen (38:43.916) Before we round off, as always Pauline, and thank you for sharing your expertise, please tell our listeners where can they reach out, how can they find you, where can they get all the questions answered in terms of marketing culture. Paulina (38:58.942) Feel free to reach out to me via DM either on Instagram or on LinkedIn. We will put all the social media handles in the show notes as always. And you can also check out our website at culturecodefoundation.com. And there you'll learn more about what we do, what I do professionally when I'm not ranting about bad cultures on this podcast. And as always. our call to action. If you have a short story to share on this podcast where you want to tell us about an incident or a situation or an experience that you made with bad leadership or bad company culture, we would be super happy to have you on the show and share your story, either you telling it yourself, or if you want to stay anonymous and don't, then we'll obviously can recount the story anonymously. and we'll definitely find a way to do this in a way that works for you. Lars Nielsen (40:03.258) And like you said, we will be sure to include all the links in the show notes, also my personal ones. So if people want to reach out to me, please do so. Thank you again, Paulina. And thank you all for listening. We hope this episode has given you some practical tools to turn generational differences into superpower in your workplace. Until next time, keep cultivating a culture that works for everyone. Thank you. Paulina (40:30.29) Thank you.