Inconsistency is the Enemy

Lars Nielsen (00:01) Welcome back to yet another episode of Cultures from Hell. I'm your host Lars, and today we're diving into a critical issue that can undermine even the strongest organization in consistency. We're talking about how a disconnect between words and actions, fluctuating policies and a lack of aligned values can destroy employee engagement and brand reputation. Joining me as always is Paulina. She's the co-founder of Culture Code Foundation and our resident expert on company culture and leadership. Paulina, welcome. Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (00:49) Thank you Lars! I love this intro. Yes. Lars Nielsen (00:55) Yeah, so the mixer I got for 500 euros is worth everything just for that, right? Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (01:04) Absolutely. Lars Nielsen (01:05) Paulina, we are talking about inconsistency today. Let's, I would say as always, let's start with the basic. Why is consistency so crucial in maintaining a healthy company culture? Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (01:13) Mm-hmm. Yes. Okay. Consistency clearly builds trust, right? When leaders and organizations are consistent in their actions and their words, employees will feel secure and valued. And because they can, they know that they can rely on what is being said and that the actions actually match the words. Consistency therefore, ensures that people can work towards the same goals, with a high level of efficiency because there is no mix up, no miscommunication, no misunderstanding, right? And inconsistency on the other hand, will breed uncertainty and inefficiency because you do have those kinds of misunderstandings and inefficiency collaboration. Lars Nielsen (02:20) And you and I, we read an article as preparation for this show, which highlighted inconsistency between words and actions as a key trust breaker. Can you give us a real world example of this? Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (02:37) yes. I mean, when I read the article, I immediately remembered something from my, from my own career. So today I brought another personal example, maybe not quite as, quite as personal as last time. but actually one of my former employers had the value ownership and ownership clearly implies that you expect your people to take initiative, to bring positive results. And it means that you're not waiting for others to act and that you care about the outcomes as much as the owner of the company would. And it is being accountable for the results of your actions and to make sure that these are of the highest quality and delivered in timely manner. Right? So this is quite, there was quite the formal definition of what ownership in this, in this kind of context means. And I personally love that value. And I think it's absolutely crucial for business success. So I think it's a really, really good value. It is lived because in this company that I'm referring to right now, multiple managers work with harsh micromanagement. And that is actually something that I see a lot. I've also seen it in customers. I've always also heard it from friends. And that is a point where words and actions really clash. Right? If you, if you want to hold your people accountable, if you want them to show ownership and then you micromanage the fuck out of them. sorry. I swore again. Please beep that out. so this just can't work, right? So, in the company, the C-level would actually complain about people not being accountable enough. And I actually, I mean, call me bold, call me stupid. don't know. I asked them, I honestly asked them, how is ownership supposed to show in your teams or in your people if they're being told what to do at every turn. If they can't actually be accountable for their work because somebody else constantly controls them and checks on their work and, yeah, frightens them into doing things by the book. This just can't work. And I didn't get a really sufficient answer on this. They were just like, yeah, just do it. Like, yeah, I'm doing it in my team, but you're not complaining about my team. You're complaining about other teams. So it's your job. to make, to hold other managers accountable to make sure that they don't undermine this value of ownership. Right. because Lars Nielsen (05:27) Mm-hmm. Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (05:32) A management team then wants to see that kind of thing needs to make sure that it doesn't kill any attempts to make people feel accountable or take ownership ownership. And so if consistency is done right in actions and words, I call that practicing what you preach. Otherwise it's just wishful thinking, honestly. And I think this holds true for all inconsistent behaviors, but especially in relation to company values. Because you usually use your values very offensively or openly and you have them on the wall or in people employee handbook or whatnot. So there is a very clear counterpart to the actions that you're proving then. Right. And let me tell you one thing Lars, people are incredibly receptive to inconsistent behaviors. That's like a primal instinct because yeah, because we need to be able to judge people, right? And if they don't do what they say they're going to do, then they, we receive them as a, as a, as a free fear. And therefore we can, humans can sniff out inconsistency for miles. Lars Nielsen (06:50) You are so right. And thank you for sharing us as always. just love it that on all the shows you just put it out there. And I would say when we're talking about inconsistency, you and I, both come or have worked in startup cultures. And there is a lot of inconsistency in a startup culture because you have to adapt everything. You have to trial and error everything. Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (07:09) Mm-hmm. Lars Nielsen (07:19) with your products and your marketing and your sales and so on. So when we're talking about inconsistency, in my view at least, is that there can be inconsistency in the company, but the core values, the startups I've been, and I've been fortunate to work in some great ones, is that how the leaders react and the transparency and how they communicate and so on, that has been consistent. whereas a lot of other things has had inconsistency, but that has not led to a bad culture because the leaders have been consistent on how they behave towards employees. Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (08:03) That is a really, really great point, Lars. Thanks for bringing this up because you're absolutely right. Not everything in a business would ever be inconsistent, right? Because you have changing market conditions, you have employee turnover, you have to adapt to new technology, whatnot, right? Or fail fast and learn from it. but that is not usually what I would cluster under inconsistency. That for me is like usual business modalities. The inconsistency becomes a problem if actions and words don't match. So if you have any upheaval or any change, and just as you said, you communicate it transparently. And if you have the set of core values that you behave consistently on, then I don't I wouldn't cluster that as any problem. And it also brings up another point that I just, I don't just want to bash on companies, right? We always talk about personal responsibility when it comes to the workplace too. And as an employee, you also should be consistent, not just consistent in behaving within the framework of the values, but also consistent in your performance and in your self reflection and making sure that you consistently work towards bettering yourself. That's my personal opinion. because that is, yeah, it's, it's a give and take in any work relationship, right? So if you, and you and I, we're from sales, right? So an inconsistency in your sales approach is what's going to kill your deals. Let's be super, super frank about this. So trying to find routines that work for you and that you can then consistently follow or consistently, at least consistently reflect and adapt. That is also some sort of consistency, right? So just want to throw that out there as well. It's not all, not all change. No, I'm not saying change equals inconsistency. That's not, not what I'm, what I mean. And I'm also not saying it's only the company's responsibility to be consistent. Everybody within the company should be consistent. Lars Nielsen (10:32) When we're talking about inconsistency, what are some strategies that leaders out there can implement to ensure that their actions align with their stated values? Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (10:47) Hmm. Super good question. And I think you should, we should take a step back and start a bit earlier because I think as an organization, the first, the first thing you should do as any organization is to clearly define your values. because based on your personal conditioning, every individual will understand value slightly differently. And that brings natural inconsistency into values if they are not clearly defined. Right. so if you don't have a super clear definition, then you basically provoke the bear, poke the bear, bring in problems that you don't need to see. So these definitions that you make for your values should be succinct, should be super clear and ideally primed with examples, which behavior is ideal. Lars Nielsen (11:20) Mm-hmm. Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (11:43) and which behavior takes this value, A, not far enough or B, too far on the other side, because that's also a basic truth. Every single behavior, if done to a certain extreme, becomes a bad thing. So I always said, we're not naming names. I'm going to break my vow of anonymity here because I want to call out my former employer, Spendesk who did an incredibly good job on this front. They had an amazing definition of their values and exactly with this three steps, which behavior is ideal and when does it, do you take it too far and when don't you take it far enough? And that makes it so easy for everyone, the leaders and the ICs and the C-level to help hold themselves accountable to these values and also to, to say, okay, yeah, I'm doing it. I'm doing a good job here. Could do more here. Could do less here. Or you could do hit more here or less there. Right. So kudos. Yep. Yeah, that was really well done. Lars Nielsen (12:46) Shout out to Spendesk Perfect. If a company, okay, let's imagine we have a company that has already experienced a breakdown in trust. What are the... Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (13:02) Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, we need to go back. I only mentioned the first step. I only talked about defining the values. Lars Nielsen (13:10) Okay, I'm putting a marker here. We're hang on, I'm gonna put in a marker. And then, let's see, where did you break off? Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (13:24) kudos to spend desk or shout out to spend desk. was then your, yeah. Yeah. Lars Nielsen (13:28) That's what I said, that's not something you said. But where did you break off? Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (13:35) Shall I start now? Lars Nielsen (13:37) You can start in 3, 2, 1, go. Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (13:44) And so that's the first step. And the second step is then to be very transparent about the expectations around these values. And that also includes management being super clear about their expectations towards middle management. Right. Because it's not just, again, the top management, the C level is responsible for holding middle management accountable to living these values as well. Obviously also responsible for holding themselves accountable. And that brings me to the third part. Make your values part of your regular routines on each level of hierarchy. So speak about these values and how to best love them. Find stories within your organization that best exemplify the perfect value behavior and make sure that you don't tolerate behavior that goes massively against these values and as a leader again, no matter on which hierarchy level, make sure to seek feedback to ensure that you are on the right track yourself. Lars Nielsen (14:57) And speaking of that, I would do another shout out. I would actually do a shout out to Salthmade where you and I met. Because I remember, I can't remember how often we did it. I think it was twice a year where everybody actually came together online and went over like the whole system or the whole values and how we worked and so on. And everybody had to actually vote. Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (15:04) Yes! Lars Nielsen (15:26) if this is still how we do things. And everything was revised, I think it was twice a year. And I love that because everybody actually had a saying in like, we still living these values or do we need to change them? Do we need to adapt them to where the business is now because we're growing and so on? And I loved it. I've never tried that before. I loved it. Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (15:34) Uh-huh. Yep. Yeah, that was absolutely amazing. I wouldn't couldn't agree more. It was so for everyone who wasn't at Salthmade. So we would have a couple of weeks before this meeting to reread our full culture deck that we had. We could comment, we could suggest new things, could suggest edits or deletions. We could also refine the definitions. And then in the, in the group meeting every six months, we would decide together by voting and everyone, everyone's vote counted the same, right? So the CEO votes was worth one vote and the interns vote was worth one vote. So that was super democratic process. And just as you said, Lars, everyone had a say in how we wanted to live and breathe our culture. And then obviously also infuse it even more into our everyday work. I love that too. Lars Nielsen (17:00) Shout out Solvmate, shout out to Eric, the former CEO of Solvmate who actually implemented this and your co-founder. Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (17:09) Exactly. Yes, my co-founder in the Calterco Foundation. Lars Nielsen (17:12) Yes. Okay, Paulina, let's continue. if a company has already experienced a breakdown in trust, what are the first steps to rebuild this? Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (17:26) Yeah. that's a good point too. And let me, repeat that because I think we talk about this every episode. Making a mistake is human and will not necessarily destroy anything irrevocably. Right? So we all will have up, in our, in our work, no matter if you're a leader or if you're IC, it doesn't matter. So If that happens, just be open and honest about it. So you, you should acknowledge the issue, take responsibility and that's the important, that's the crucial part, commit to change. So this means that especially as a leader, you need to own up to where you have to up. and after realizing that you breach the values and oftentimes the beautiful thing here is. oftentimes you can actually create a whole new level of trust and integrity if you actually openly admit to making a mistake and committing to changing your own behaviors and then being consistent on that change. So you then follow through on that. You will win a lot of points with your people because they will see that you're human, you are making mistakes, you are Oining up to the mistakes, you're talking about making a mistake, you're making yourself vulnerable, that creates a sense of psychological safety and so on and so on and so on. Right. So, actually, so you're if you, if you handle a mistake or, or a breach of trust in the right way, that can actually become a miracle drug to creating more trust. Isn't that beautiful? Lars Nielsen (19:23) It's so beautiful. Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (19:26) And obviously, I mean, a very selfless mentioning here, seeking external support like from the College of Code Foundation can be helpful. Lars Nielsen (19:40) Of course, of course. And again, I can, and I have no stake in this. I have no stake. You have a in this, but I have no stake in this. Reach out. Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (19:49) But I don't, I don't, I don't actually have a stake in this because I mean, I love this podcast and it's such a passion topic for me. don't, I don't, I love to just talk about it and to influence people just through this podcast. I don't have to have the customer project. I love to have them, but because the more impact I can have with my work or Eric and I can have with our work, the better. Lars Nielsen (20:14) But I can only recommend reaching out. Again, I've been working with Eric, I've been working with you and both of you are masters at creating a very good culture in companies where everybody feels safe, heard and comfortable. Okay, getting back on track. Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (20:19) things. Thank you so much, Lars. Lars Nielsen (20:41) Enough talk about you and Eric. Paulina, what are the three things that are important for a leader to remember when trying to build consistency? Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (20:44) HAHAHAHA Okay. I'll try. I'll keep it very short and succinct here. number one is clarity. Secondly, self reflection, both in what does this value mean for me? And do I live this value well enough or not, not just the value, but my actions. I, do I live up to my actions? No. Do I live up to my words? Do my actions live up to my words? Lars Nielsen (20:58) huh. Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (21:23) And thirdly, follow through. I'm always about follow through. Lars Nielsen (21:30) And now you again, you and Eric have the Culture Code Foundation and you work professionally with company cultures and you probably get to hear a lot of stories and a lot of, would say bad examples. That's probably when, sorry. Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (21:46) Maybe... Maybe... Lars Nielsen (21:51) That's probably when people reach out to you most oftenly. It's when things have gone wrong or when they're trying to build it at least from the beginning. So based on everything you guys have learned or have experienced, what is a popular myth about company culture that you would like to disprove? Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (21:56) Hmm. I think the disbelief that you cannot change company culture, because I always say that every company gets the culture they deserve. So if you don't like what you see as a business owner or executive, you should dig deep, really deep where your own behaviors drive facts that you don't want to see. And also to see where you let things slide in terms of holding people accountable for the behaviors that you don't want to see. And because that, those two things are huge levers towards changing company culture by changing your own behavior and by holding people accountable to live the right, the kind of behavior that you want to see. By holding accountable, I'm not saying make more, put more pressure on the people or be mean about it. it is more about actually. what's my, what's my saying? Walking the talk, like actually walking the talk and exemplifying in your own behavior every day, what you want to see. So. I would definitely say everyone in a company, no matter if you're a leader or executive or what, or if you and I see, you can do this for yourself. Every single person can include themselves in this, in this level of self-reflection in this, and give yourself a little bit of power by doing so. You can change your work environment wherever you are in the organization and even if it's just a tiny little bit, but you can do it. Lars Nielsen (24:08) Paulina, as always, time flies when you're in good company and we're kind of coming to the end of today's episode, but let's summarize everything. inconsistency is a silent killer of company culture. So, by aligning your actions with your values, maintaining transparent communication, communication, that's a tough word. and fostering a culture of, let's call it humility and fairness. Humility is not my strong side. And fairness, we can build trust and create a thriving workplace. Is that kind of sums it up? Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (24:53) That is a beautiful summary Lars. Lars Nielsen (24:56) Perfect. And for everybody listening out there, remember, consistency isn't just a goal, it's a practice. Yes. Paulina, thank you very much for sharing your expertise. Where can the listeners find you and Culture Code Foundation? Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (25:06) Yes, man. Absolutely. You can always find us on LinkedIn and you can find us on our website, culturecodefoundation.com. You can also find me personally on my LinkedIn and you can now also find this podcast on YouTube and Lars will put all of the links in the show notes. Lars Nielsen (25:39) What? You're learning! Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (25:40) I think so. I'm learning. See? I'm consistent. Lars Nielsen (25:46) Oh, that was a great takeaway. Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (25:50) Hahaha! Lars Nielsen (25:53) Paulina, as always, it's been a big pleasure and for everybody out there, thank you very much for listening in and we will see you all next week. Paulina von Mirbach-Benz (26:05) Thank you, Lars, and thanks to all of our listeners.