Episode Transcript
Lars Nielsen (00:03.414)
Welcome back to... Cultures from Hell!
I'm Lars and I'm your host on the show. And today we are diving into a phenomenon many workplaces whisper about, but rarely confront directly. Quiet quitting. And we're not talking about the resignation on paper, but the silent withdrawal of motivation. Why does passion fade? And how can we bring it back both in ourselves?
and in the teams we lead. And to explore this, as always, I'm joined by my wonderful co-host, Paulina, a company culture expert and the co-founder of Culture Code Foundation. Paulina has spent years helping organizations navigate the hidden dynamics of engagement, burnout, and belonging. Welcome, Paulina.
Paulina (01:03.123)
Thank you, Lars, as always wonderful to talk to you about such an important topic. I'm good. I'm just back from the gym and it was an extensive workout today. But you know, I mean, I don't have to tell you anything about training, right? But I've just restarted training a couple of weeks ago because I have just
Lars Nielsen (01:07.648)
Likewise. How are we doing?
Paulina (01:31.207)
decided that now with me being 40 years old, I just really need to crack down on the strength training and all of that. And it's really fun because I'm in this...
specific gym where there are very, very bulky, pumped up men who clearly go there five times a week, all the time, for years already. And now it's me and my friend. And we're both over 40. We both haven't been training for quite a while. And it's a funny combination in this gym. But it's good that I have my gym buddy.
So I'm not facing all of those.
Lars Nielsen (02:20.908)
And that's the beauty of being self-employed, right? You can just go to the gym in the middle of the day or in the morning or whatever it suits you. You just block it in your calendar and just do it.
Paulina (02:35.719)
Yeah, I mean, I like to go at a time when it's not super, super crowded. And that's just in the mornings or it's just easier to do it for me. And also, if I do it in the morning, if I do it in the morning, it's done, you know, it's like eating the frock first.
Lars Nielsen (02:41.582)
Lars Nielsen (02:48.942)
That's why I do it at 6 AM.
Paulina (02:58.447)
Anyway, trying to get back into shape and back into training.
Lars Nielsen (02:59.937)
Okay.
Lars Nielsen (03:04.673)
Great. Paulina, let's dive into today's topic. Are you ready for this one?
Paulina (03:11.236)
Absolutely.
Lars Nielsen (03:13.634)
Perfect. Let's start off light. What's one thing outside of work that gives you energy right now? Besides training.
Paulina (03:23.015)
Definitely, but definitely not the training. that's not true. I do feel really good after training, but what really gives me energy, is actually cold plunges. I've discovered that probably two years ago when I was visiting a good friend of mine in Sweden and she took me one of those beautiful, beautiful saunas that's located on like a platform that is
in the ocean and then you would just jump after the sauna you would jump into the ice cold ocean which was breathtakingly beautiful and it really got me down to earth so I would I swear it's for me personally those cold plunges 80 % mental reset 20 % esochism yeah I mean I don't do it every day obviously
Especially since I don't live near the ocean, but I try to do it as often as I possibly can and force me to face my resistance and that's oddly energizing for some reason. And plus after spending hours thinking about human behavior at work, it's really nice to find something that completely shuts off the brain for a minute or two because
Your entire brain, entire body is just focused on survival.
Lars Nielsen (04:52.556)
And I just got to say a note to that. I'm a Viking. I love cold plungers. For me, it's just so good. I love it. Okay. When you hear the phrase, quiet quitting, what does it mean to you in practical terms?
Paulina (04:57.147)
Of course you do.
Paulina (05:04.338)
since.
Paulina (05:12.619)
so quite quitting officially, think is, coined as doing the bare minimum at work. And for me, it's, it's not necessarily that that's too narrow of a definition from my perspective, because it's about disconnecting while remaining present. So you, you will show up, you, you log in if that is what's happening in your, in your position.
but emotionally, cognitively and energetically, you're out already, you've checked out. And I've seen it across the board. I've seen it with blue color workers in factories where workers have said to me, I'm physically here, but since I'm not gonna face any consequences anyway,
I'm just going to sit around, drink coffee or read my book. I'm not doing anything unless someone actually watches me. And in startups or for white collar workers, I've seen it show up in a very different way. You might still be working on hours. But usually you don't do it with the same output in terms of
quality of the work that you're delivering. And that comes from the fact that you inside everything just really feels empty. So you have a lot of noise potentially projecting it to the outside, but zero soul that actually still goes into your work.
Lars Nielsen (06:58.958)
And why do you think it resonates so strongly with people today?
Paulina (07:08.625)
I think because people are exhausted. So they can either be exhausted from pretending to care about their meaningless jobs or their meaningless projects, which can also be very, very true, is that they are exhausted from caring for too many things all at once, right? That is something that I think...
is very very hard to influence as a leader because that kind of exhaustion usually comes from personal overload like on persons in the personal life or societal overload and what i mean by that are the multi-crisis that we're seeing they were all facing at the moment and
that take up just a lot of headspace, right? And there's a lot of worry, a lot of anxiety going on because of those crises out there. And that's just something that is very hard to work against both from a personal level and a leader's perspective. But I think it's really important to understand for each individual situation where the exhaustion is coming from. And I also see that a lot of leaders still haven't caught up to the fact
that the engagement of the employees is not about perks or sorry to name this cliche, the ping pong table in the office. Engagement is always about trust. It's about voice and it's about meaning or purpose in the job that you're actually doing. And
If I feel like nothing that I'm saying or doing can actually change something or have an impact, that is where people shut down because we are all so driven by purpose. And I we've all been there, right? It feels like a waste of my lifetime to just sitting in the office doing meaningless tasks.
Paulina (09:22.961)
And especially if they feel like, you, you, you, told the story the other day, that you had a manager who didn't know how to deal with certain tools. And so you and the rest of your team members had to fill in the same information and multiple tools just to make his life easier. Right. And this kind of work just is so meaningless and such a waste of time. And that is super well designed to make people disengage.
Lars Nielsen (09:42.411)
huh.
Lars Nielsen (09:53.983)
And both you and I, come from, at least for the last couple of years, we come from the startup environment. And when you say ping pong tables, you know, I've just seen it so many times, right? And the perks like, now we have Red Bull in the fridge. We have this great coffee machine so we can do like hipster coffee. And we have a ping pong table or the football games or whatever it is.
Paulina (10:06.355)
Thanks.
Lars Nielsen (10:22.23)
And you just see that they're trying to bring this into, because they think it's going to change something, but it doesn't, right?
Paulina (10:34.739)
I mean, it doesn't, I mean, it can be a super nice thing if the rest plays into the same idea of creating more fun at work or blurring the lines between work and, yeah, fun. I mean, I've had ping pong games.
Lars Nielsen (10:39.402)
Yes, of course you can.
Paulina (11:02.139)
with, with my team members where we would play ping pong and at the same time discuss a deal. Right. So it can be, it can be super, super cool way of injecting more easiness, more fun, more connection into work. Obviously that's also only true if you, if you work in the office, right. If you have a remote team or hybrid team, then you need to come up with more creative ideas to do this. But if you just put it in there and.
Lars Nielsen (11:08.201)
Mm-hmm.
Paulina (11:31.353)
accept things to change just by a ping pong table being in the room. That's just not going to happen. And that is true for so many things. I mean, I have so many clients that complain. have this amazing offices. We have designed everything based on new work design or whatnot, like open spaces and I don't know what else. And the people are still working in the same way. I'm like, yeah, because the furniture doesn't
Lars Nielsen (11:59.684)
Yeah.
Paulina (12:00.499)
The furniture is not the leader, you are the leader. So it's your fucking job. Oh damn, I swear it is your job to change the way that people work and not the job of the furniture. That's bizarre idea, isn't it?
Lars Nielsen (12:06.188)
Ha ha!
Lars Nielsen (12:19.118)
Okay, let's talk about emotional triggers. What are the most emotional triggers that make someone disconnect at work?
Paulina (12:24.093)
Yes,
Paulina (12:30.987)
so very clearly three, three main ones, and I'm sure we've spoken about them, but let's bring them all together here. So first of all, just betrayal, right? You were promised growth or purpose or feedback or even, pay rise, and then you didn't get it. So when people go back on their word, that in a work contract, a context that can easily feel like betrayal. And that is definitely.
huge kicker for demotivation, especially if it happens more frequently or multiple years in a row. Invisibility is the second huge thing if you're excluded from decision making or recognition or when you feel like other people are being seen more. I've actually just discussed this yesterday because there is...
at one of my clients, this amazing young female colleague. She's doing a brilliant job. But she keeps being overlooked because she's, she's tiny. She's like, she's super slight. She is very small and she has a natural introversion, introversion, she just doesn't, ba-bam, show up all the time like this and pull everyone's attention to herself. And so she's getting overlooked.
And that kind of invisibility is really, really harmful, especially if you see that other colleagues are being treated very, very differently in the same team. So this inconsistency also is, an important part. And the third one I would say is powerlessness. So if you see problems, but you can't speak up, um, or you can't influence anything because people are saying, yeah, that's not your, it's.
above your pay grade or focus on your own job or whatnot, right? If you, if you have this.
Paulina (14:31.891)
Yeah, inert feeling that you don't have the power to change things that you believe should be changed. That's a huge part. And all of these triggers don't scream, right? It's not like they are always there. They are super loud. They are super visible. It's rather that they simmer under the surface. And you might not even be necessarily capable to
pinpoint that moment in time where it just boils over, but one day you definitely stop trying.
Lars Nielsen (15:10.89)
And then these triggers, is this, or is it usually about the job itself? Is it the culture or could it be something more personal?
Paulina (15:23.229)
From my experience, it's usually a mix. So even if the job itself might be fine, if the culture treats people like interchangeable parts, or if you're personally going through something and the system that you're working in has no flexibility or empathy, that's where disengagement sets in. And especially the second part where people feel like interchangeable parts, that is something that I see on the rise, unfortunately.
I'm hearing from more and more companies that are saying, okay, that they have super strict performance reviews and no matter how good your personal performance is, 75 % of the people's performance is better than yours, then you're automatically out, right? And that doesn't just have an effect on the people that have to leave, that are getting fired.
Let's put it blankly here. But it also affects the rest of the team that stays there because the signal that you're sending with this kind of behavior as a company is if I'm not showing up 100 % of the time, if I'm not performing 100 % of the time, then it doesn't matter what's going on with me personally. It doesn't matter what I've brought to the company in the past. It doesn't matter if I have a big network within the company. None of this matters.
It's just, I'm just a number. And if the number is good enough, then I'm out. So that's.
Please, please, please all stop doing that nonsense. It's, we are not effing robots, right? We all have personal things that we bring to work. No matter if they can show up clearly or if they are, if I have to hide them, they are still there. I still bring them with me, right? It's not like a freaking gym bag that I just tack in at the door and pick up on my way out.
Paulina (17:31.279)
just not the reality of it. And I would like to share yet another person's story. It's so funny Lars because of this podcast I realize how many insane work stories I've collected over my lifetime. I would have thought I'm out of stories but no, every single episode that we do I realize that happened and I forgot that this was
Lars Nielsen (17:48.046)
you
Paulina (18:01.047)
Jesus, right? It's like every time I'm realizing, yeah. I mean, I've been around a I've been around a while, but still I find it very interesting that I've experienced so many crazy stories myself. Not even my clients, just my own personal career. Yeah, sorry, little side brand. Let's go back to the story.
Lars Nielsen (18:01.878)
You
Lars Nielsen (18:14.72)
You
Lars Nielsen (18:25.589)
A little rinse.
Paulina (18:29.571)
That was actually in my first company ever, in the first company I've ever worked for. And I started there as an intern. And five years later, I was the chief operating officer in the company. And at that time, I was only 29 years old, full of ideas, ready to contribute, really wanted to change things around.
But it was funny constellation because the other two C-level executives in the company were both white men over 50. And it was the most cliche kind of setup that I've ever experienced throughout my entire career because those two old white men, they would actually make decisions over cigars and whiskey without me.
I wasn't invited, I wasn't even asked to come along. And even if they would have asked me to come along, I'm not, I don't smoke, I hate whiskey. So I would never sit in a cigar lounge and swish around my whiskey. So they would never have happened, right? Just like I would never go to the golf course. That's just not me. But that's where the decisions were being made. And
I was clearly just a peer on paper and completely invisible in practice or irrelevant even in practice for making any decisions for the company. And that exclusion very, very quickly actually killed my drive and my motivation because I knew it wasn't about competence. It was simply about access. And it was so weird because they promoted me into this position and then
They forgot that they did this in a way. It was really bizarre.
Lars Nielsen (20:29.134)
Maybe they promoted you and thought that they could control you because you were younger, you were female and so on and so on. Very typical.
Paulina (20:35.059)
Maybe, maybe. mean, one of them, I mean, one of them actually came to my, came to my desk, handing me a USB stick and saying, there's a file on that. Um, an Excel file. need you to convert this into, um, PDF. And I was like, and I just pushed the stick back to him and I was like, Oh, I'm sure you're capable of doing that yourself. And just so you remember, I'm not your assistant. It was bonkers.
Lars Nielsen (21:04.716)
Thank you for sharing that one. How can leaders spot the early signs of disengagement before it turns into quiet quitting?
Paulina (21:15.123)
So you should definitely pay attention when you see someone who used to challenge you go silent. Or if updates are transactional or creativity flatlines, your team just simply asks for feedback. It stops asking for feedback because that's usually not laziness, it's protection. It's slipping into this, into the slide of exhaustion and
disengagement. And if you are lucky enough to have, or capable enough to have really built a lot of trust with your team members and you are emotionally tuned to them, then you should feel a slight shift in energy before you actually see any of those signs that I've just mentioned, right? And that
will allow you to steer against the disengagement and the demotivation and the silent quitting super, super early before it can really take root within people. And yes, that is just another reason why you should really invest in building that kind of trusting relationship with your team. And coming back to practicality, you can definitely always ask your team, no, other way.
You should ask yourself what that they stopped doing that they used to do. And if you keep, if you keep your radar around this question up and running all the time, then you will see those shifts and then you go ask them why they stopped doing that. And then obviously it's your job to listen without defending anything, but just be there and listen and take it in.
Lars Nielsen (23:13.096)
And you just shared a story about, and I love the story about two white male in the fifties, because that is basically me. So that's always nice to hear those stories.
Paulina (23:24.179)
That's true. But come on, was 11 years younger than I am now.
Lars Nielsen (23:31.734)
Yes, I know. But besides that, have you ever experienced a moment where your own motivation quietly faded?
Paulina (23:42.163)
I have experienced multiple ones, but this one was really probably one of the most pronounced ones because I really went, I literally went from over preparing presentations to recycling old slides. Right. So I stopped caring. not because I didn't believe in the mission or, in the product of the company anymore.
but because I didn't believe I mattered in any form or way. Right? mean, yes, I was still young there, but I felt that there was so much emptiness inside of me. There was so much...
Paulina (24:31.121)
resentfulness as well. So I was like, I am here to change things. That's why you promoted me. You wanted me to change things and now you're blocking every single thing that I'm trying to do to change for the better. that's when I look back, I really learned that in that situation, once you feel the relevant motivation erodes with the silence and
it usually doesn't come back unless things around you change massively obviously. from what I've learned once you're in that down spiraling situation it's really hard to get you back from there.
Lars Nielsen (25:04.256)
And I...
Lars Nielsen (25:19.694)
and I couldn't agree more with that. When you think about it like Quiet Quitting, right? And I'm pretty sure there's a lot of, let's say, urban legends or myth when it comes to that. What is the biggest one that you heard about that you like to kind of debunk here in the show?
Paulina (25:42.919)
Yeah, what I hear so often is that people are just really lazy or entitled, that they have super high expectations and, no, let me correct that high expectations and entitlement. not the same thing. Right. so
For me, this quiet quitting or loss of disengagement never has to do anything with laziness or entitlement. Because most people that I've spoken to throughout my career, they really want to work, to do work that they are proud of. They really want to feel a sense of purpose in what they are doing.
Quiet quitting is often just the last step after trying and trying and trying and trying for too long to change things or to influence things or find this purpose within a job that I'm doing and not receiving any reward, any recognition or any impact with what they've actually been doing. from my perspective, it's rather a human resilience strategy.
because at some point you just.
Paulina (27:02.279)
have to check out or you'll burn out.
Lars Nielsen (27:07.104)
And for someone that's sitting here listening to this podcast and they might feel their passion is gone, what would be the first step to re-ignite this?
Paulina (27:21.523)
I would definitely recommend to try to ask you a couple of questions to really reflect on, for example, where did I last feel proud of the work that I did or the impact that I had? What excites me or used to excite me in my job? And when did my job actually feel like thriving or like growth and not
survival or this hollowness, right? And I always recommend write down the answers to those kind of questions because it's always so much better to get it out on paper or on on a notion or whatever and not just have it swirling in the back of your mind on and on and on again but really bring it out in the open and then you can look for
a common theme throughout the answers. You can see, you can realize what things might've slipped out of your fingers that you actually have a bit of a control over because obviously not always you are in a position where you can control this or when you can change it up, but you might find some grains and bits and pieces where you realize, okay, that is something that I can actually control that I can change without any approval, without running it up the flagpole, but just...
out of my own drive or my own interest in finding that joy again in my work, right? And if you do that, then obviously act on it, find a small action that aligns with that memory of where you used to be proud of or where you used to have fun. So for example, if you used to love mentoring somebody, you can offer to coach a junior colleague.
If you loved problem solving, pitch a better process. So the reconnection with the joy in your work starts with your own agency. And another thing that I really, really want to put out there, and that comes back to the high expectation thing, We need to understand and we need to accept that every day,
Paulina (29:44.465)
will be filled with joy and fun and exciting work. That's just simply not going to happen no matter what you do. I mean if you're lucky enough that you have that most of the time, that's already amazing. But even me as a self-employed person at last, I'm sure you can relate to this. There are a lot of days where I just have to push through, where I have just to get the annoying
things done, admin work or legal things or product work or whatnot, right? Things that don't really give you joy. But it is also simply the reality of our work life and of every single job out there that annoying bits and pieces are simply part of the job.
Lars Nielsen (30:40.206)
I would say it's the reality of everyday life. And again, like you said before, we mentioned before in the show that I do a lot of training, I love to train and for me it's kind of an addiction. And sometimes I go down to the gym and I'm like, my God, I can't pull myself to do this.
Paulina (30:44.967)
Yes.
Lars Nielsen (31:05.602)
but I have to do it. And I would also say, and this is not just work out related, this could be job related, this could be personally related in terms of my friends or my girlfriend, that sometimes when you push through those things on the other side, you'll actually have a lot of satisfaction that you actually did it, that you pulled yourself to do it, right?
Paulina (31:27.155)
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. I mean, that's just what I said earlier today, right? I do not like work out to work out. I really have to push myself. It's also the reason why I got a gym buddy. that we all, we really make sure that we show up not for each, not for ourselves, but for the other girl. Right. That's just a little, little bit of a mind trick.
Lars Nielsen (31:51.341)
Mm-hmm.
Paulina (31:54.961)
But afterwards, when I'm done, when I'm, when I've pushed through, I feel really, really good. And so I couldn't agree more. It's absolutely true. We have to push through and pushing through things, facing things and getting things done that don't give us joy can also come with a lot of satisfaction because it gives you this feeling of, okay, I've done it. I've done it against all odds. I've done it against my own.
inner barriers. I've just got it done. Get things done. For a long time, actually, on my desk, I had this neon sign sitting that would read, let's get shit done.
That is just so true because if you push through the shitty parts, push through, accept them as part of the reality and put them in times where you're low on energy anyway and just get them out of the way and then do the fun things and make sure to do as many fun things as possible.
in your job and really make sure to assess where does the fun lie for me. Because that could also inspire career change to be honest.
Lars Nielsen (33:26.528)
And now we talked about like how someone can kind of reignite their passion, right? What if we turn it over to the managers or the leaders? How can they re-engage the teams without resorting to forced motivation or gimmicks? We talked about the ping pong table earlier.
Paulina (33:31.675)
Yeah.
Paulina (33:48.051)
I would always suggest start with listening, like don't just throw anything out there like savvy or something, but have actual conversations with your team. And one of my most beloved questions and I'm sure I've shared it before is what's one thing you need more of and one thing you need less of to feel motivated right now. And
then you try to fix the things that you can fix as quickly as possible. Just to give you a super palpable example, maybe I'm just watching Ted Lasso for the first time. I know I'm years behind in my serious game, but I don't know if you ever watched the show. Okay, so Ted Lasso is a really great Apple TV show about a football coach.
Lars Nielsen (34:37.844)
I don't know who he is.
Paulina (34:45.103)
and he actually is actually an American football coach so and he comes to England to teach soccer or coach soccer and obviously those are two different sports and the entire team when he starts working super defensive and really doesn't trust him because they believe he doesn't know Jack, he doesn't know what he's doing because
He has no experience with the sport. And then he starts asking questions. He simply starts asking questions. What's not working? And it could be anything. Tell me anything that's not working. And then he gets this one piece of gold information because one of the players actually shares that the showers don't work and that they have super, super low pressure.
water pressure. And obviously for an effort for professional athlete, if you work out all day and on the field playing football, you soccer in this case, you want to, you want to have a fabulous shower afterwards. You don't just want to have like a little drizzle over you. And, but most, most coaches wouldn't care about the water pressure because it's not part of their game and their job in their perspective. And
this Ted Lasso guy, he just fixes the power, the water pressure immediately. And sure, he doesn't turn everyone around by doing that, but they start to understand, okay, he's actually listening to us. And that is where the magic can happen because if you make people feel heard instead of managed,
then that's where trust can evolve and that's where people will start talking about other things. So my clear advice, kill dead meetings or unnecessary meetings or meetings where you don't come to any decision or conclusion or whatnot. Share decision power. You are not necessarily, you're not the person who has to make every single decision and you're probably also not the person who's going to make the best decisions in every single case. So share it.
Paulina (36:59.341)
and give real feedback, things that people can actually work with. So this kind of respect re-engages people so much faster than a lot of other things, like the ping pong table or free lunch.
Lars Nielsen (37:17.102)
And then what role do psychological safety and trust play in bringing motivation back?
Paulina (37:28.611)
the baseline. It's basically everything. If I don't feel safe to speak up, I'll stay quiet even when the house is burning. So my leader will not know what's actually going on. So you need this if you don't have the foundation of trust.
Paulina (37:51.601)
you will not be able to bring the motivation back because they will not believe that you're actually interested in them. Right. So that's also why I wanted to reiterate how trust is built from a leader to their team. So you, you as a leader can create trust in your, in your team. If you do three things consistently, that is always the key. Do it consistently.
Number one, follow through on what you promise. And if you don't know, if you can keep a promise, say that upfront as well. Say, okay, I'll do my very best to get you this promotion or the salary increase or whatnot, but I don't know if I will manage to do it, but I will fight for it. I will fight for you. Then the second part is acknowledge when you yourself are wrong or, and that is crucial, when you just don't have an answer.
Right? You don't say that is sharing your own vulnerability. That is also making sure that it's okay to say, I don't know. And that is also the bridge that you can then build to invite feedback, invite the knowledge of the bigger group instead of projecting that I know I have to know everything because none of us do. Right. And that's actually bringing me to the third point.
invite the uncomfortable truths, invite them into the conversations, don't punish them obviously, rather use them as a motor that keeps propelling you towards something better as a team. So, and we've discussed this one as well, I'm sure we have. For me, motivation isn't about pumping people up, right?
and has nothing to do with it. It's about creating a culture, team environment where energy isn't drained.
Lars Nielsen (39:56.623)
And as always, when we are kind of getting to the last part of the show, I think we talked about, talked for about 40 minutes now, that's always what happens when we get rolling. So kind of the closing thing here on the show, what's the single most important thing someone listening out there can do today to feel more engaged at work or engaged in life in general?
Paulina (40:06.003)
you
Paulina (40:22.483)
Hmm.
Paulina (40:27.409)
I think it's, two parts. It's number one, what would I do differently today? If I believe that my voice matters. And the second part is what is my, where is my agency? What can I control about changing the situation that I'm in? Because it is so easy to just blame.
things or people outside of yourself and at the end of the day it always comes back to ourselves, right? And if it's just the acknowledgement, okay, I can change the way I feel about it. I can change the way I reply to certain things or react to certain situations or people because we can always do that.
always this kind of agency we have in every single situation in life. But it's really hard to acknowledge that or to really, really understand and incorporate that into everyday life. But I always say, nobody can make you feel anything. That's all happens inside of me. Nobody makes me angry. That is my decision.
to react to any given situation with anger.
Lars Nielsen (41:57.163)
Exactly. Pauline, as always, it's been a great pleasure. Please tell the audience or the listeners out there how can they connect with you if they want to learn more about your work at the College of Code Foundation or maybe reach out to get a good advice from you.
Paulina (42:14.769)
You can always head to culturecouchfoundation.com or find me on in LinkedIn or Instagram. We will always help put the social media handles in the show notes. And I'm happy to connect with you to share your real world stories. I'm super happy to share tools and insights and battle tested cultural practices.
And if, especially if you're a leader that's feeling stuck, yeah, let's talk. Let's see what we can change together.
Lars Nielsen (42:52.97)
And there's always things we can change. And as we've heard today, quiet quitting isn't laziness. It's often a symptom of disconnection, unmet needs or loss of meaning. And you Pauline reminded us that reigniting motivation requires honesty, safety and then sometimes small, deliberate steps.
Paulina (43:02.107)
Okay.
Lars Nielsen (43:22.318)
Yeah, and if you want to learn more, Paulina said, reach out. I'm also going to put in my social media handle, so just reach out. Also, if you have a story you want to share on the show, and of course, that's going to be anonymous if you don't feel comfortable sharing one in public. So just reach out to any of us and we'll be happy to share your story.
Paulina (43:34.056)
Yes.
Lars Nielsen (43:46.708)
And as always, remember if you enjoyed this episode, give it a like and make sure to subscribe to Cultures from Hell and share it with somebody who might need a spark of motivation. Thank you for listening.
Paulina (44:00.083)
Thank you.
