The Mask We Wear: Performing at Work While Withering Inside

Lars Nielsen (01:10.158) Welcome back to The Podcast where we dive deep into the unspoken truth of workplace dynamics. I'm your host Lars. And today we are tackling a topic that many of us can relate to even if we don't always acknowledge it. The mask we wear performing at work while withering inside. In our professional lives, there's often an unspoken pressure to maintain a certain image, to always be on and to appear perfectly fine even when we're struggling. This phenomenon of faking fine at work is more prevalent than we might think. It has profound implications for individual well-being and crucially for the overall health. of a company's culture. We'll explore why this happens, how to spot it, and most importantly, how can we all contribute to creating environments where authenticity is not just encouraged, but truly safe. And joining me today to unravel this complex issue is my brilliant co-host and expert in company culture, Paulina. co-founder of the Culture Code Foundation, Paulina, welcome. Paulina (02:45.435) Thank you Lars. And it's great to be back here again and to have the monster voice back for our intro. I really missed that last week. Yeah. Lars Nielsen (02:51.618) Yes. Yeah, we were just talking about it just before we went on. It is so great to have it back again. I'm never going to do a show on the road again. Paulina (03:03.815) Well, never say never, but anyway, I'm really looking forward to today's episode. It's such an overlooked topic that shows up in different aspects and obviously in different varieties and strengths. And I think it's really important topic to talk about. Lars Nielsen (03:28.862) Yes, it is. As always, think all our topics is very important to talk about. Paulina (03:30.698) I was just about Paulina (03:34.631) I was just about to say, I think I say this every single time. Lars Nielsen (03:40.632) But it is, it is. Come on, listeners. It is important. Listen to the show. Paulina, let's start at the very beginning. The premise of this episode is that many employees feel they must, again, quotation marks, must fake fine at work. From your perspective, as someone who works extensively with company culture, what are the primary reasons you see Paulina (03:42.855) Mm-hmm. Paulina (04:00.23) Mm-hmm. Lars Nielsen (04:10.21) this performance mask emerging in workplaces. Paulina (04:12.135) Yeah. So while this is a super crucial question, Lars, I also want to say very clearly that obviously not everyone is doing that. and we see all kinds of shades within this faking fine at work phenomenon. And I think it stems from usually from a combination of factors. And firstly, there is often a perceived pressure, or in many cases, even the actual pressure to maintain professionalism. And especially for generations, my generation, for example, when I started work, I was being told that emotions don't have a place in the workplace. So this kind of thinking or pressure can be misinterpreted. as needing to suppress any vulnerabilities or challenges that I might bring from the personal life. Right. Um, and this is a exhaustive exacerbated probably by the constant discussion around sick days and Gen Z being in quotation marks too soft or not reliable enough. is currently all around, right? And let me be very clear on this point. I do not believe that this is true. This is complete nonsense. But it is just something that is being talked about a lot. And I would, I can very, very strongly imagine it. see it in the companies that we work with that this, yeah, increases the pressure on this, on this kind of topic. Right. And for older generations on the other hand, for example, mental health is still until today, very stigmatized and Paulina (06:19.393) Therefore people might push their own limits simply because that's what they're used to. And they might not even be noticing necessarily that they are not fine themselves. And then there is another perspective for especially parents because the childcare crisis they were seeing I think it's the same. I mean, we definitely see this in Germany and I'm pretty sure we see that in the UK as well. Probably not so much in the Nordics, but we see this in a lot of European countries. And that already creates a lot of downtime, especially for the partners who work only part-time. And in that specific cycle of hell. They believe or are actually being told that they can't afford any more hiccups or any more challenges to that could affect their performance. So you see, it's it's a huge bouquet of, ugly flowers that can influence this, this topic of faking to be fine at work. And I'm sure I haven't covered all of them. Lars Nielsen (07:23.34) Yeah. Lars Nielsen (07:39.88) And I'm just going to, based on what you just said, Pauline, I'm just going to put myself in the older generations bucket. Because I'm like, I'm the kind of type that's like, almost no matter how sick I am, I still think that I have to go to work. And it's, it's just something, it's just something that became more clear to me over the years that One thing is that I am the kind of person that has like a very high morale of going to work and have to put in the groundwork and the hard work and so on. But what actually has kind of doing this and quotation marks cured me from doing this is that I am also putting other people at risk if I go to work. And I put the whole business to risk because I go into the office and affect everybody. Paulina (08:16.144) Yeah. Paulina (08:29.766) Meow. Lars Nielsen (08:36.012) Then the office is down, right? Paulina (08:38.181) Yeah. And I mean, this is, this is physical health on the one hand, right? So this is also a different, we also need to differentiate people faking being physically fine. put the faking in quotation marks because it's not always a conscious choice or a conscious mask that I'm wearing. It's often very subconscious pressure things that, that drive me to do this. Lars Nielsen (08:48.408) Mm-hmm. Paulina (09:07.083) and we also have the, again, in quotation marks, faking the mental health part being mentally fine. and I would say there is a generational divide because of the questions that the reasons that I said before, like the old generations, not so much aware of mental health topics as the younger generations. There's also, gender divide, if you ask me, because thanks to the beautiful patriarchy, sarcasm warning in the go, is still making it, putting so much pressure on men just to be, men can't have emotions, men can't have mental health issues, they need to be strong and whatnot. Right? So, and So for men to acknowledge mental health issues at work is a huge, huge topic. That probably is an entire episode on its own. Lars Nielsen (10:20.898) Yeah. And again, I'm just going to put myself on the line saying like, when it comes to the mental part, I also sometimes like wake up in the morning. I'm self-employed, so I can basically just take a day off if I need it, in theory at least. But I sometimes wake up in the morning and say like, man, I'm so burned out. But then for me, what happens in my brain is that Paulina (10:40.518) Yeah. Lars Nielsen (10:44.952) Come on, Lars, you just have to push through it. You have to go to work and push through it. You have to work yourself out of that hole. And my girlfriend, she just keeps shaking her head and looking at me and is like, fuck, come on. I said the wrong word, Paulina (10:51.367) Mm. Paulina (10:56.964) you And I think the right way is somewhere in the middle of that, honestly, right? Because especially if you're self-employed, I mean, I'm self-employed myself. So if you don't push yourself, that can become a problem. And it's also a self-fulfilling prophecy kind of thing. If you're constantly focusing on, I'm not well, I'm not doing good, then this can increase. Lars Nielsen (11:05.271) Yeah. Paulina (11:29.275) your symptoms. I mean, there is so much research on that, that if you, if you're sick and you imagine a rising sun multiple times every day, you will recover quicker than if you don't do this. So if you focus on positive things, if you focus on, if you, you keep thinking thoughts of, I'm, I'm healthy, I'm, I'm strong, I'm, I'm, I'm there. This is going to manifest. in a way, not 100 % of the time, obviously not, but it can have a positive, very strong positive effect. Paulina (12:11.143) So that's, that's the one set of it, but at the same time, you need to know your limits. And especially if you're self-employed. for me, I've made the rule for myself, for example, I have, I am so being vulnerable here now guys. I'm, I have endometriosis and that comes with excruciating pain through my period. And I've always pushed through power through my entire career. And for, and now like since the start of this year, I was like, I am not going to work on these days on the first and second day of my period. I'm not going to work. That's it. I can't it's I'm, I'm a mess. My brain doesn't work properly because I'm so focused because the pain is just taking me out of it. No medication is really helping. So I'm not fully there and This is a huge, it's an actual huge limitation for me for one or two days a month. And if those one or two days off of the month, fall onto work day, I've just decided I'm giving myself, I'm allowing myself not to work and to be, yeah, to be not fine. But it took me a long time. mean, I've been, I've been working for 15 years. Took me 15 years to. And before that, for 15 years, I was faking being fine in those days. Right. So I fully, I fully feel that. Lars Nielsen (13:44.8) Mm-hmm. Lars Nielsen (13:51.23) So it's almost like an unwritten rule that's showing struggling is a sign of weakness rather than a human experience. So when you talk about these performance masks, what does that actually look like in a day-to-day work setting? Can you give us some concrete examples of how someone might be faking fine? Paulina (14:01.681) Yeah. Paulina (14:19.587) Yeah. I mean, it can manifest in multiple ways. And I think my example, my personal example was just one is already one way of, of that. So faking fineness can also be obviously something that you do just a couple of days in a month or a week or, or throughout the year. But it can also become a much broader issue where people are really holding back parts of themselves for a long period of time. because they feel the need to show something or show strength or something like that. So I've seen some crazy examples. So bear with me. I have seen people make a point of always being visible, meaning they would send messages very late in the evening or very early in the morning. They would make a point out of doing that so that people would think they were working really long hours. More often than not, these messages though, were actually scheduled. They weren't, they weren't actually working during those times, but they were pretending to be working just to showcase this I'm always on mentality. and I've also, and that's, that's one of the crass examples, back in the day when people had single offices. right, when they would have their own office for themselves. I've seen people leave the office, but leave the light on in their office and close the door so that people would think they would still be in the office and still working and they would be the last ones to leave. Today, this blows my mind because it's obviously so easy to detect that as fake or not. If just a colleague needs to knock and, because they want to say goodbye or whatnot, and then they find the office empty. But that was like 10 years ago or eight years ago, there was not an uncommon trick. so Paulina (16:30.319) In those cases, people are usually trying to fit in with an overall expectation of FaceTime, while not being able or willing to live on that in reality. And I can get, I understand the pull of doing that because I was working for a couple of years. I was working for a startup in Berlin while I was still living in Leipzig. And I was commuting every day back and forth, which was from door to door. in the mornings, two hours commute and in the evening, two hours commute. So it was a four hour commute every day. And I would leave the house at six o'clock in the morning and I would be back home at nine at night. But I would only be in the office between 8.30 and 5.30. And which was my allotted eight hour work day with, with, with break, right? but most people would stay longer, much longer. And there was rumors going on that Paulina was just not in the office a lot. they, come, because I, wasn't seen that I wasn't seen, my face wasn't seen in the office. And not only did I get all my work done, obviously, but I also worked while I was on the train. So I actually had quite long work days, extremely long work days. but nobody noticed and I got like this, there were a couple of people who gave me this image of being lazy because I was in the office only the allotted nine hours. Bizarro world, right? So I get that pull of faking this FaceTime. but that, so that's, that's one thing that, that we see, that I've seen and, but faking, faking it can also mean simply not being able to bring your full self to work. So hiding specific parts of your personality or your personal life from colleagues or managers, for whatever reason, right? That, that can be coming from all kinds of, Paulina (18:44.005) Yeah. Misconceptions or, or real conceptions. So I've been a couple of examples. I have seen people, everyone thought to be single, but they were actually married and had kids. But they, in the office, they had like this alter ego of being single and no kids so that nobody would suspect them to be. in less flexible or working less because of them being a father or mother. So really, really weird. Or on the other extreme, there was a colleague who everyone believed to have to be happily married. And then their contract was switched to a full home office contract. And turned out that they had been living in hotel for months already. they were going through an ugly divorce. So, and this does not always obviously have to do with a bad company culture because sometimes you just don't want to share this kind of personal information in the workspace and that is totally fine, right? I want to make this super, super clear. You don't have to hang your entire identity and your entire personal experience in the window. That is not, not the goal here, but when it comes to a point where you actually suffer from not bringing this to work, that's the breaking point for me. Lars Nielsen (20:17.806) It sounds like a lot of energy is spent in maintaining these masks. What's the biggest challenge you've seen individuals face when they are constantly playing a role at work rather than being their authentic selves? Paulina (20:38.823) Again, I want to differentiate. if it's something that you choose to do because you don't want to share, share everything, I don't think that's good. That's having too much of an effect. So I'm going to focus only on the other cases where you feel you're being pressured into not showing your, your full self or your true self. And in those cases, the emotional and psychological toll is significant from, I believe they're one of the biggest challenges is the energy, the simple energy it takes to keep up with your own facade in such a situation. You will need to be on constant high alert so that you don't let anything slip by mistake. And so that most people in such a situation will constantly have a high level of anxiety because they, they are always afraid that the jig might be up at some point, right? And they would also be oftentimes feeling of shame involved for hiding important things. And there's also high likelihood for them to develop anger or resentment toward their employer, colleagues, or direct manager if they feel they're being pressured into hiding those things or in faking things. Lars Nielsen (22:01.582) And how does this faking fine ultimately damage the, let's call it the overall company culture? What are the ripple effects you've observed? Paulina (22:13.575) Mm. Paulina (22:18.001) Well, it usually is more a sign of a really bad, if it comes down to systematic... pressure on denying certain things or hiding certain things, then it's usually more a warning sign that the culture is already really bad. it has like exacerbating effect in the terms of you already have a culture where there is a little trust and a little psychological safety. And because people are hiding things and fighting things, they also don't trust each other. The trust gets eroded even further. You will have not a lot of innovation happening because people are so focused on, yeah, keeping up the facade. They will also not bring the full performance. We've said this a couple of episodes back that if you're constantly afraid of being in danger, then a part of your brain will be, will be busy with, with scanning for that danger instead of really focusing on your task and your performance. Right. So this will spread further and further around the company. And, um, I would like to tell one of the crassest stories that I might, might see here or that I've, that I've actually experienced. Um, cause once. I once took over the leadership of a new team in a company and I felt very, very, very early on that one of the team members was struggling. Not to end. was handed over the team with he, this, this person, he is struggling on the performance side of things. He's just not performing. need to manage him, either develop him or manage him out. And. Paulina (24:27.589) I took it over from a male leader and I got, I got the sense there was something else going on and I duck slowly and carefully. I dug into this and after, after creating trust with this team member, after two or three weeks, he confided in me that he had been depressed for four years. He was suffering from depression for four years and he had hidden that depression for four years. because he had told said manager four years ago that he was depressed and he had laughed him out of his office telling him he should man up and just go for a walk and have a beer. They would clear this up for him. I mean, the manager reaction, drives me up the wall. And, but you can see here very, very clearly what kind of effect that has, right? So he would hide his mental illness for years, also for himself. And he then obviously didn't perform really well. That's why people thought he had the performance issue. And unfortunately, because this has been, had been going on for so long. he actually then the depression became turned into a burnout as well because he felt so much pressure then to perform that it just completely pulled the plug from under him and On the one hand, have this tragic personal fate, which was horrible for him, of course. And on the other hand, you have the effect for the company because they've lost a strong employee. They have actually made them sicker. Paulina (26:42.071) the gate, given the impression to the rest of the team that it's not okay to not be okay. And that you will be worked to the bone if you're not okay. And, and it was really extreme because this, this specific team within six months after I took over, I saw six people leave because of burnout. And I am convinced that, I mean, you know me Lars, I'm not working people to the bone, so I know it's not. But the performance pressure was so high and this, this idea of it's not okay to be not okay, was so ingrained in people's minds that they had all already stretched their limits by the time I took over the team. And I couldn't turn the strand around unfortunately, which feels like huge failure on my part. But today I'm glad to know that most of those people are okay now. They've managed to heal and get new jobs. So that's amazing. But you can see the effect on the company is a ripple effect that went through the entire team that pulled other people downwards. And if this initial person hadn't had that experience. then maybe, or if the original manager had handled that experience differently, then for the rest of the team, it would have been okay to flag that they were not okay early on, and then you wouldn't have seen like six people leave because of burnout. Lars Nielsen (28:38.944) And I'm like, four years? Wow. But it also shows like I'm going to try to put like, I'm really going to do this in quotation marks, a positive spin on this when I'm saying this, that it also shows how incredible and again, in quotation marks, incredible we are as humans, how much we can actually endure as humans. But just to kind of spin it back to your story, it's like it also shows why it's important for managers to be aware of this and look out for this and react on this. Because no matter how resilient we are, no matter how tough we are, how much man we are, whatever, four years of mental overload, that's going to take a toll on everybody, no matter who you are and how tough you are. Paulina (29:20.368) Absolutely. Paulina (29:29.509) you Paulina (29:36.505) Absolutely. Absolutely. And the longer this kind of situation goes on, the harder it becomes to heal from it. Right? That is just also the reality of it. Lars Nielsen (29:50.414) 100%. If we want to kind of move beyond this, how can leaders and colleagues begin to recognize when someone might be wearing a mask? What are the subtle or not so subtle signs we should be looking for? Paulina (30:02.641) Mm. Paulina (30:10.693) Well, that's not, it's not really always easy to spot. It's usually easier to spot if things shift for someone, like when they've behaved in a certain way for a long time and then they suddenly behave differently, that's much easier to recognize than when somebody has been wearing this mask for a really long time. And From my experience, most people kind of slip into this faking mode because this not being fine is also usually a gradual development. And so they will slip into this mode slowly but steadily and things will start shifting. Usually people don't live in this mode forever. So some key indicators that I've seen is sudden irritability. So if people show more distress at work, if they blow a fuse in a conversation, will usually just, where they usually would be much chiller about it. Or if they start constantly looking for reassurance, like always making sure that, did you like what I did there? Can you give me some feedback on where I'm situated at at the moment? You see that actually also a lot with people at the end of their probation period, which is another topic. Let's do it. How to deal with probation periods. Well, as a company, because if people are afraid until the very last day of their probation period, if they're going to survive the probation period, then you're just not doing your job right as a manager, but different topic. And. Lars Nielsen (31:59.834) Mm-hmm. Paulina (32:04.443) Yeah. So this constant reassurance thing is definitely another sign where I would start digging into and. On the other hand, if people start making a lot of excuses when they didn't do so before, and generally showing up differently than before. if they have a different... Paulina (32:29.631) if they stand differently, if they hold their bodies differently, if they can't look into the, in the eyes anymore, there, there can be very, very subtle signs there. So, and the signs can be so different depending on your individual situation and the individual reasons for putting on the mask. And even the fact that if you're consciously aware or not, they are, then you're wearing a mask at the moment, right? So unfortunately for all leaders out there, you are required to be really vigilant all the time. guess I've said this before, and if you are a strong leader, you will be genuinely interested in your people. And this genuine interest combined with active listening and keen observation should do the trick to spot this kind of things. unless of course you are already wearing a mask of being fine yourself, then you might be too self-involved to see this. Just, just putting it out there also manages are allowed to be faking being fine. yeah. But I guess that's, yeah. Keen observation is just the key. Lars Nielsen (33:52.504) Paulina, let's pivot to the practical advice. If you have to pick, let's say, three essential things that are crucial for creating a safe space where employees feel comfortable removing their mask, what would that be? Paulina (34:12.889) Hmm, I love this challenge. Let me think about this for a sec. Paulina (34:20.773) I guess the three most important things is firstly, leading by example. So as a leader, you have to demonstrate vulnerability yourself. It is so crucial to normalize mental health and physical health and share your own experience and weaknesses. You've been around for that one. In my teams, I share upfront that I am highly sensitive. And I'm never sure quite sure if that's the right English term, but it's this, yeah. And I would share with my teams how this condition shows up in normal life and how it shows up when I'm under stress. And I would always tell all my team members that they can tell me openly if they spot these signs of me, because I might miss them myself. So with just by setting the frame of that with sharing this vulnerability of mine and giving them a clear handle on how to deal with this. If they, if they see it, I've normalized completely to talk about things if they are not being fine. then obviously establishing clear, say clear psychological safety is super, super important. I think that goes hand in hand with showing the vulnerability yourself. because if you create this kind of trust, if you create the safe space, Hmm Paulina (36:03.905) then people will feel much more at ease coming to you talking about this. And clearly, as always, it's not just about saying it's okay to fail, it's okay for you not to be fine, but actually showing that through action in the day to day work. yeah. And the third thing would be providing genuine avenues for feedback and support. So not just random surveys that you will take like on an infrequent basis, but real conversations, like giving people space, for example, in the one-on-ones, just asking them. How are you doing? Like showing real genuine interest here. How are you doing? And really listening then and not making this like a gender item to just tick off, but really digging deeper. And if people saying, yeah, yeah, I'm fine. Then that's, that's the beauty with my highly sensitive thing, because I can sense very easily if this fine is a real fine or it's not real fine, but I think everyone, no matter if you have, if you are highly sensitive or not, you can just look at the other person, raise an eyebrow and just be quiet for a minute. Just shut the fuck up. damn it. Lars Nielsen (37:40.686) We used the F word! Paulina (37:42.629) I used the effort! Please, beep it out! Lars Nielsen (37:46.094) Nope. Paulina (37:47.677) Please do! So just look at people for 30 seconds, 20 seconds even, without saying anything. And if something is going on, they usually will open up. If the trust in you, if the trust towards you is there... This silence will create the space to really open up. Lars Nielsen (38:16.046) I love that you mentioned surveys. I have just encountered that in so many companies that you get these surveys like, they say like, oh, but it's anonymous. So everybody will get the honest opinions. no, like, like you're saying, like sit down with them, shut up for a minute, look them in the eye and ask them how they're feeling and said, I know that it, that's also very time consuming. So you can't do it with everybody, but you will be a. If you are an empathic leader, you will be able to who needs that talk, right? And those service, I get it that they are very good for statistics and like the overall view on companies, but like just sending them out and think then everybody's okay because they can just answer that survey. They're not okay and reach out and nobody does. So we don't have a problem. That's not how it works. Paulina (39:12.453) Yeah, I would like to say on this point, please remember you're dealing with people, not statistics. Lars Nielsen (39:18.136) Mm-hmm. Paulina, if someone wants to start this journey of being more authentic at work, but is, let's call it fearful of the repercussions, what's one piece of advice you would give them to take that first small step forward? Paulina (39:42.335) I love that question. That's really, I think it's really cool to look at what I as a person can maybe personally do. If I want to change a couple of things for myself and my advice would be to build your pack like in Wolf's pack, right? So I would tell you to start with one, one person only. Start with one person. You can always make this bigger in a later stage, but start with one person that you truly trust and where you feel with whom you feel safe. can be a colleague, a a direct colleague from your team. can be a manager. can be somebody from a different team. can just doesn't matter at all. Just one person that you feel you can trust and then share one single thing with them. That makes you slightly uncomfortable. So I'm not saying share something super drastic with something super wild, but a small thing that they don't know about you yet. And where you're not 100 % sure how they, how they might react to that. So you're stepping slightly out of your comfort zone with one single person. And you will be surprised how amazing almost everyone will react to this kind of openness. They will usually show interest. They will share something from their from themselves. They will end so you can create a tiny little ripple effect of authenticity from from just sharing this one thing about yourself. And once you receive this kind of reaction or feedback to being a little bit authentic of sharing a little bit of yourself. It will become so much easier to repeat this with more and people and therefore slowly but surely you can start stepping into your own authenticity at work. Lars Nielsen (41:50.35) 100%. Thank you for that advice. think it's a great one. Take those first small initial steps. Paulina, this has been incredibly insightful conversation as always. We have explored deeply human reasons behind the mask we wear, the profound impact it has on individuals and organizations, and practical steps forward. cultivating a culture of authenticity. The key takeaways for me are the importance of leadership, by example. I love that. The need for clear psychological safety and the power of genuine feedback and support. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise and for all our listeners who want to learn more about your work and the Culture Code Foundation. Where can they find you and how can they hook up and send you questions? Paulina (42:53.055) they can find me or you, whoever's listening to that, you can find me on LinkedIn. Obviously you can also find me on Instagram. We will link up all the social media handles and also our website and the show notes, because it's culticoatfoundation.com. And, just, yeah, that's for, for what I do professionally. And if you want to be on the show. either as a anonymous story, or if you want to be on the show live with us, we're probably going to have another live guest in two weeks time. Already looking forward to that. And then you can always contact either Lars or me through LinkedIn, through Instagram, just DM us and we would be happy to welcome you on the show. Lars Nielsen (43:50.9) And I think you have said this a lot of times before, we will of course keep everything very anonymous if that's what you will prefer. We're not going to put any names out there or mention anything we're not allowed to. Paulina (43:59.751) Absolutely. Paulina (44:05.988) Absolutely. Lars Nielsen (44:07.466) Okay. Thank you Paulina for another great episode. If you're new to the channel, make sure that you go in and follow, give us a thumbs up. The algorithm loves this. Leave a note if you're watching on YouTube, leave a comment. And like you said, we'll be sure to link all everything in the show notes for this episode. And to the listeners, remember creating a culture where people don't feel they need to fake fine starts with each of us. Be mindful, be empathic, and strive to create safe spaces for generating connections. Thank you for tuning in to Cultures from Hell. Join us next time as we continue to explore the challenging yet vital aspects of our professional lives. Until then, take care. Paulina (45:00.433) Thank you all so much and thank you Lars, it was amazing.